I'm sure everyone's email box was visited today by several emails complaining about the APA and related matters. I suppose then that the time is right for anyone with big ideas about how to improve the APA to speak up-- there's lots of justified discontent at present. Three thoughts:
1. As I said in a thread on one of the earlier posts, I think we're stuck with a big December 27-30 meeting. It's the least sub-optimal of all the options. What I don't see the necessity of is having the big December meeting on the east coast, rather than in a more central and warmer location. It used to be the case that only the major cities in the East had sufficient facilities for a big meeting. This is no longer the case. I know the APA has explored the alternatives to having a big meeting in December. Have they examined the possibility of moving the big December meeting from the Eastern division?
2. This year's search committees will of necessity have to experiment with non-standard interview vehicles: mainly conference calls and Skype. My strong suspicion is that many will find Skype roughly equivalent to in-person APA interviewing. Perhaps it would be a good occasion to begin to disconnect first-round interviews from the APA meetings entirely. Departments using Skype could interview more candidates over longer stretches of time and under conditions that are more comfortable to all. Then perhaps they could take the money saved on conducting APA interviews and use it to bring more candidates to campus. Is there any sensible rationale anymore for coupling the APA meetings with the job interviews?
3. The APA website-- its entire online presence-- is fucking useless and an embarrassment. Someone please take it down and give some 13 year old a six-pack in exchange for a website that works.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
22 comments:
Spiros--why should those dates be inflexible? As I have said on previous anonymous posts, I see no economic or academic reason that they should not be moved, though I concede that if those dates are defensible, then the venue should be moved south/central. Is there some economic or academic reason that so many interviews are essential to the winter time frame, especially given the accelerated economics of funding of higher education with respect to academic years? Given that so many searches are cancelled or deferred, why should post-Xmas dates be preferred? Why then rather than other dates? Tradition looms large here--and for that alone looms as highly questionable.
10:59,
I suspect you're right. But I also know that a few years back a committee explored alternate dates-- they polled the profession, if memory serves-- and could not come up with alternative dates that a majority preferred to Dec 27-30. Nearly everyone hates the Dec dates, but there are no other dates that enough people find preferable. Maybe that's changed. The APA should be looking into it.
"Someone please take it down and give some 13 year old a six-pack in exchange for a website that works."
Typical inefficient APA thinking. Everyone knows a six-pack will pay for two 13 year old web designers.
10:59,
A meeting of the APA in South Central? I'm fucking there.
"South Central APA"
They'd have us but "they find that they couldn't handle us"
word verification = ecringed, as in "After she emailed me she so ecringed"
So... how shall we proceed? Should we begin a petition among philosophers? Or should we all write letters to the APA? It would be helpful if someone would coordinate this campaign... I'm ready to begin the battle!
The Ethics etc. blog is currently conducting a poll and discussion of just this issue at http://ethics-etc.com/2010/12/13/poll-should-the-dates-of-the-eastern-apa-be-changed/
I largely agree with Spiros. I'm not sure about moving the job-related meeting to Dallas -- I think you may be underestimating the concentration of philosophers in the east. But I'm really only guessing. In any case, I strongly agree that we (all of us) should end the whole practice of APA interviewing.
That Ethics, Etc. poll is not very helpful, because we already know that most people want to change the dates of the meeting. The problem is that there is no particular date (or week, etc.) that most people want to change the meeting to. (Typical philosophers, foundering on quantifier scope!)
Are there reasons other than inertia to keep the Winter APA meeting in the Eastern Division?
2:02 again. I just saw Jamie Dreier's comment, and a large concentration of philosophers on the East Coast seems like a possible reason to keep the meeting there. I'd like to see someone map the geographical distribution of philosophers.
I appreciate Jamie Dreier's point. But surely for many (very many?) philosophers in the East, a flight to certain points West is roughly equivalent (in miles and time) to a flight to Boston, Philly, or New York. There is no doubt a large concentration of philosophers in the *North* East, but is that concentration enough to warrant holding the December meeting in the East? Not clear.
10:59:
I know that in my department, we do search committee meeting stuff after our own reappointment/tenure/promotions decisions, which come earlier in the semester. So doing job search stuff earlier likely wouldn't work. We could do it later in the year, but that puts much pressure on both job applicants (given that the successful one would have to move, and the unsuccessful ones would have to arrange an alternative plan) and the university's HR people (as this is a state school, which requires more paperwork than one should have to address). While it's partially true that tradition looms large, other aspects of department work has been built around that tradition, and would need reshuffling.
But more importantly, the timing would change how graduate students structure their (potential) final year. What do you suggest? Do the market later, and force applicants into an end-of-year rush when they don't find out until June/July whether or not they have a job (possibly impacting their pending graduation), or do it earlier, and force applicants to defend dissertations in the early fall for the chance they might get a job (and thus potentially lose their funding)?
I agree with most everything Spiros has posted. My sympathies are with Jamie Dreier. If anyone wants to start a movement, it should be to put a stake in the heart of the interviewing farce. Anyone who has ever had a job outside of academia can tell you that these 'job interviews' are fucking crazy. Even ignoring the heap of social psychology data against it, any other profession that interviews would find our practices preposterous.
Which makes me wonder, When did this practice of APA interviews begin, and why? Perhaps it was an attempt to escape the old-boy-network method, which is laudable, but it's had its day I believe.
I would think that interviews in the earlier winter/late Fall would be just as useful for most programs. I don't mean September or October, but what about early November?
Faling a date change, we really need to at least include the southeastern area in the rotation far more often. I suppose some soutern cities are just as expensive right after the holidays as Boston and NY, but at least they would offer some weather advantages (not, interestingly, with this particular storm).
And finally, in addtition to changing the way we interview, a reasonably professionally run association would be a huge advance. This storm was a disaster all up and down the east coast, but much of the misery and confusion could have been allayed by an effective web presence and somebody on the job.
(WV: thsack - what we would like to give the officials of the APA?)
CTS, on the topic of southern cities: can you be more specific? The next three Eastern meetings will be in Washington, Atlanta, Baltimore. I believe other southern cities suffer from one of two problems. Some (Miami Beach) are hugely popular this time of year, so the prices would be sky high. Others (Savannah, say) just don't have hotels with the facilities and enough rooms; even Baltimore causes serious problems when job candidates have to taxi from one hotel to another in the harbor area.
I agree with whoever that is who said it would be good to see a map of philosopher concentration in America. It's worth looking into the possibility of putting the job market meeting in Houston or Dallas. Of course, it's a whole lot easier for me to get to Boston or New York, and DC, Baltimore, and Philly are < an hour by plane and reasonable by train for me, so come to think of it, let's not change a thing.
Except we should end the convention interviews. Otherwise Robert Johnson is going to kick some ass.
@Jamie:
Two thoughts:
1) Good to hear about the next line-up, but why can't we spread them out more. That is, why three in the mid-Atlantic and South in a row with three in a row up North. I'm not sure what that would gain us, to be honest, but it seems odd to group them this way.
2) I realize that Florida is likely to be a no-go this time of year. Why not someplace like Chapel Hill or Charlotte? Columbia?
Finally (ok, that's three), why not shift dates around so that the big jobs meeting is under Central or Pacific?
I don't know. I am old and do not expect to see any of this change.
I'm all for ending the interviews at the APA. The price alone for many graduates (without financial support) is enough reason for me. One way forward is for individual departments to avoid it and spread the word. Another might be for departments to agree a common statement where each pledges to abstain from interviewing at the APA to end the practice. Who will start?
WV: coackho
@CTS:
1. I have no idea.
2. Look at the hotels in Chapel Hill and you'll see why it's impossible. I don't know much about Charlotte (it's a USAir hub, which is a big plus), but I will bet that it doesn't have the hotel space and facilities to accommodate us.
3. As I said, it's certainly worth looking into Houston or Dallas (hubs, must be plenty big enough for conventions). And come to think of it, why not New Orleans? We know the Riverfront Hilton is big enough for the Central meetings, so the only issue would be whether it had enough suites for interviewing. (An overflow hotel just for ordinary rooms would not be a serious problem.)
Tom B.: you couldn't just take a train from NY?
Jamie,
I suggested NOLA earlier. Seems to me a no-brainer. It's a fun city, and definitely has the facilities. Flights there are reasonable. It could also use the business, so I expect it would be easy to get favorable rates, etc.
Do you know if the APA has looked into this? I really do not understand why the December meeting is locked in the hands of the east coast (mostly the north east coast, really).
I completely support a relocation of the APA to a more favorable locale, as well as a change of the meeting dates. In light of the unlikelihood of either of these things actually happening, however, I have what may be a less demanding suggestion:
Request that hiring committees indicate in their JFP ads whether or not they will be interviewing at the APA (as opposed to phone or Skype interviews). This would amount to an addition of 10-15 words to each ad - either: "We anticipate interviewing short-listed candidates at the Eastern Division meeting of the APA," or: "We intend to conduct phone/Skype interviews of short-listed candidates in January."
At least this way, broke job candidates will have a more concrete idea as to whether it will be worth their money to make travel and lodging accommodations in advance of the Eastern division meeting. Perhaps if enough schools engaged in this practice, it might also put more subtle pressure on search committees to revise their current interview practices in favor of less costly approaches.
WV: spirki, as in, "She sure is spirki today!"?
I third NOLA. It is in the Central Div, yes? I suspect there are other southerly cities in Central that might do well at the same time of year.
Of course, that would mean getting the divisions to switch times. Is that a political nightmare?
(WV: vishn - I'm vishn someone would figure this all out.)
Yeah, my guess is that nobody has looked into having the December meeting in New Orleans. The institutional assignment of responsibility wouldn't really give anyone the task of thinking about switching the division. (Yes, CTS, New Orleans is in the Central division, and indeed we will meet there in 2013.)
In the _Inside Higher Ed_ article, Schrader says the organization is planning another survey about timing. That would be a good occasion to raise also the possibility of giving the other divisions a shot at the job market meeting.
I meant to ask Richard Bett (Eastern div. secretary) about this, but each time I saw him he looked... not in the mood to chat.
Post a Comment