Anonymous said...That's pretty bad. I'll have to think a bit to see if I know of anything in this league...Worst experience with a job candidate during an in-campus interview? We had one poor job candidate cry on the final goodbye as she basically begged us for the job
Wednesday, January 26, 2011
Worst Experience with an On Campus
An anonymous commenter writes:
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61 comments:
How about this one: As a female job-seeker (not recently, but much closer to now than you would like), having to stay in a faculty member's house and waking up to him masturbating in the doorway to your room?
It must have been far worse to be the interviewers hearing the candidate cry than to be the actual candidate. Whatever was she thinking, putting them through this?
I think it's now a competition for second place. . . . I hope, anyway.
How about the following situation(s).
For several years we have running up to three job searches simultaneously: One for a new director, one for ethics, and one for epistemology. All are TT with typical fun employment packages of housing assistance, insurance, guaranteed sabbatical, small teaching load, graduate slaves, reduced parking fees, etc.
We made an offer to a guy for the director position. We couldn't match his salary demands and the other candidates had already accepted positions elsewhere. After two years of being unable to hire a director the dean cut the track and told us to find a current faculty to do it or he would just find someone.
I don't know what happened to the epistemology slot, but that has also gone unfilled for two years despite multiple campus interviews.
The ethics one was most interesting. After two searches we made a job offer to a women who the faculty were divided over but the students, deans, etc. thought had great potential. (FYI, in our department women almost never get campus invites, so it surprised many of us that she got a visit and an offer.)
Her rejection email basically said that after careful consideration after her visit she had decided to stay on the job market for another year or two rather than join us.
In this job market where people are trying to get anything, especially TT at T2 research institutes, what are we doing to these candidates where out of at least 9 campus visits we cannot manage to hire 1 person? I mean, I can understand a candidate turning us down if they have better job offers elsewhere. But to have someone flat out tell us that they would rather stay unemployed for a year or two than come to our university? WTF?
We had someone who, for a job with a 4/4 teaching load and tenure requirements that mostly come from teaching, tell the department that he wasn't interested in teaching, and admitted he wasn't really interested in the job, but would take it until he got something better.
Let's face it--pending stories that involve 1st degree felonies involving mayhem, 6:06 has won this competition hands down.
And when I say hands down. . .I mean. . .
So mine's nothing. When I was hired all 3 candidates were brought to the campus the same day and forced to lunch together with the committee at the local chinese restaurant (we were not told of this arrangement beforehand). The other two candidates interviewed before lunch, and I was the one afterward. One member of the committee approached me and said "I have a conflict and can't attend your interview, but on the basis of our lunch I'm voting for you." And I got the job over one internal candidate who was expected to breeze through the whole process.
But as I said--until 6:06, I thought a had a good story.
6:06 here. Wow, 7:38. Your story shows impressive and deep institutional fuckupedness. I've always thought the APA cocktail-party-in-the-suite gladhanding with other candidates was weird, but an on campus? That's crazy. I'm curious, though. What reasons do you think were generated in your favor at the group lunch? Did you tell good jokes? Do good philosophy? Order the coolest meal? Talk least often with your mouth full? Lick your plate the cleanest?
7:00--yikes.
Of course I can't top 6:06, but ... once when I flew in for an on-campus interview, they forgot to pick me up at the airport. In fact, it wasn't even until the next day after I'd checked into a hotel (and broken the bank on an expensive steak dinner -- accompanied by lots of fine wine -- on their dime) that they even realized I was in town. They did apologize, but never reimbursed me for my cab ride into the city (although I suppose not complaining about my dinner bill made up for it).
Anon 7:00 PM The stuff going on with the hiring problems you've described *could* have something to do with how certain members (or factions, even, if there are any) are handling any "alone time" with candidates.
It could be the case that the department as a whole (each and every member) is really coming off the wrong way, and that's one thing. But you seem perplexed and I'll take that at face value and suggest that you might not be seeing and hearing what even one or two faculty members are up to during the on-campus visits.
A long time ago during an on-campus interview that took a few days I was handed off to one of the faculty members to show me the way to the room where I was giving my job-talk. Once we were out of earshot of the chair, this faculty member got a conspiratorial gleam in his eye. "Finally, a chance to speak to you alone--to tell you the truth about this place..." It suddenly became clear to me that this faculty member felt marginalized and, as he told me about the "repressive regime" silencing him and certain other colleagues, I wasn't sure what to make of the place. It wasn't that I was so naive to think there necessarily was a "repressive regime" at large, but I realized full well that if I got this TT job, I would be working with at least one tenured faculty member who *believed* this was was the case and had gone so far as to speak to a job candidate on the down-low about it--right before my job talk!!!!
Maybe nothing so crazy is going on, but it might be helpful to think about this sort of sabotage (intentional or inadvertent). Job candidates are constantly being told that they are ON every single moment when they're on campus and interacting with people there. The same thing is true for interviewing departments. I think people on the market are pretty hip to common sorts of departmental dysfunctions and will accept a certain degree of it, but there's a threshold where the red flags of future misery wave way too high to ignore.
Hmmmmm.
7:00, meet 6:06. Or perhaps you've met?
7:48/6:06, I'm 7:38--
Again, compared to your story, mine pales into insignificance.
Years later several committee members clued me in. I just came across as someone intelligent and likeable. (Unlike the 4/4 story of total jerkidity above.) Turns out they valued my potential for relating to students and colleagues over anything else. And I think I've proven them right--and published quite a bit too, which they weren't concerned about up front.
But--I can't compare anything I've experienced or even heard of to compare to your nightmare.
6.06 - wow.
Word verification: pated
So, did the cry-baby get the job? I want to know whether I should work tears into my interview strategy.
Dear Anon 7:00:
I am excited to apply for he TT position in ethics/epistemology at Anonymous University, advertised on the Philosophers Anonymous Blog.
My AOS is in ethics. I have strong interests in epistemology as well. In a pinch, I can do administrative work too. I have the references to back all of this up. And my mom tells me that I am a catch.
Sincerely,
No Fly Outs For Me
I splashed one of my interviewers with pasta sauce at lunch. Well, the tortellini looked good. But the little buggers kept sliding off of my fork. One took a high dive, and ... splat! The guy had to go home and change his shirt. I didn't get the job, but the guy I splashed voted for me. (Hey CP! Hope you're well.) I know, this hardly counts as worst, but I felt pretty bad at the time.
I'm sorry 6:06, I didn't think that I woke you up. Then again, it's not like I came on your face or anything. In any case, thanks for pretending to be asleep. It would have been very embarrassing for me otherwise.
I'm wondering how many of these stories involve U of Texas-Austin?
Long ago, I was one of three finalists for an administrative higher ed job (before I finally got a TT teaching job). They brought all of us to campus on the same day and had us share lunch with the search committee at the same time. I got the job, and once I'd settled in and felt comfortable, I asked them about this strategy.
Answer: They knew we would feel extremely uncomfortable, but wanted to see how we each handled awkward situations. I guess, at least for a mid-level administrator, that was relevant. But it was very strange, and that explanation makes much less sense for prospective faculty members.
What is this, the Philosophy Smoker? I understood Spiros's post to pretty clearly be about problems that hiring department have with candidates, not the other way around. That is not to say that there aren't all kinds of horror stories like those related here--but there are other places for that stuff on the interwebs. I want more stories of the type Spiros initially related...
Original commentator here:
6:06 -- you have left me speechless
10:14 -- no cry-baby didn't get the job. It's a long story but it was at the end of a final interview after a 3 day trip and an OK research talk and two disastrous teaching demonstrations (two because it was a joint appointment and each department required a teaching demonstration). I mean the worst teaching I had ever seen and she was the graduate teaching liason at a top-5 Leiter school. The final breakdown was a nail in the coffin. She even said that her mother really wanted her to get the job. We were all speechless.
Hmm. 6:06 is disturbing, and makes me wonder about my job-seeker visit when I stayed at a faculty member's house (to save money for the department, I guess). I didn't wake up to discover him playing with his junk, but I did accidentally take one of his shirts when packing my clothes to leave at 4 a.m. to catch a taxi for an early flight home. I mailed the shirt back to him. I didn't get the job.
(For Anon. 5:32 - If it helps make this more relevant to the thread, imagine that this anecdote was told by the interviewer ("the guy took my shirt!")
Holy Shit, 6:06. I saw this thread when it had zero comments, and I figured some good stories might come of it. But I didn't expect that. Jesus Christ. It'd have been funny if you'd taken a picture with your cell and shown it to the SC chair! Though in this fucked-up world, that could cost you the job.
Wow, 6:06! You never said if you were offered the job. I assume you declined it even if offered.
wv: cringer
But 6: 06, why was the door to the room open?
6:06, that's simply amazing.
Word verification: ovirrit, as in "Wow, 6:06, if that happened to me I'd never get ovirrit."
But 6: 06, why was the door to the room open?
Presumably, because he woke her up. I mean if I'm sleeping in a strange place and somebody wakes me up with...whatever it sounded like..., I'd open the door to see what was up. And if it's during an on-campus visit, I wouldn't immediately expect to open the door and see my host masturbating.
To Anon 7:00PM,
There are many reasons why people would want to turn down the position. I turned down two TT positions last year to stay in my current year-to-year appointment position. (It's year-to-year, but there's really no concern that it will not be renewed and it's a pretty nice gig.) Many people are on the job market not actually looking to get a job. The only way we can get leverage with our current institution is to threaten to leave. I was offered the two positions, brought this to the attention of my department chair and dean, and my salary was raised by 150% to match those other offers. My partner and I are pretty settled in our current city and we have no interest in moving, but the dean doesn't know that and my chair is always supportive of us trying to get more money. Perhaps these candidates are in similar positions? Heck... perhaps I was one of the ones you speak of.
OK, no one can top 6:06, but, during his campus interview, a friend of mine stayed with a Faculty member who had something like nine cats. In principle, this could be a cute and cuddly experience, except that one of the cats urinated on his work bag (which had his notes for his talk among other things). There were other twists and turns to the story (as some serious plumbing issue being caused by his attempts to clean up the mess in the middle of the night), but, unfortunately I can't remember all the details.
To keep with the theme of candidates behaving badly on-site:
We had someone who was taken to breakfast in the main dining room by one of our junior colleagues. The guest - of one gender - regaled our colleague - of the other gender - with a story about a mutual acquaintance caught, yes, masturbating in his office.
This made our colleague nervous enough, but that fact that it was told at MAXIMUM volume and with shrieks of laughter at a table shared with undergraduates...
At the original 7:00 pm's question: I don't know the particulars of your dept or institution, so this is pure speculation. But could it be that the candidates you've been identifying have been... how to put this... "out of your league", as in, you've been aiming to high?
This strikes me as plausible given that (i) some candidates already had other offers which they accepted; (ii) another candidate expected a much higher salary than you could get approved, and then walked without it; (iii) one position has gone unfilled for multiple years running; and (iv) at least one candidate would rather stay on the market instead of taking your job.
Not all places can land the best people, you know... perhaps you should add some "safeties" to the list of realistic candidates.
It's not really a *bad* experience, but it is an amusing one: we once had a candidate who give his job talk wearing two ties. We still don't know why. But I do now always warn job-seekers to wear at most one tie.
2:55--could the candidate have dressed for success and then tied one on?
wv: bulingra, as in the drug that enlarges talk about bullfighting
For the record, I was merely shellacking my doorjamb.
I have this third-hand about a search in History at one of the top US institutions.
Candidate one, after a day of interviews that went well, concluded dinner by picking up his plate and licking it clean.
Candidate two, after a day of interviews that went well, asked what the Department's policy was on dating students.
At the subsequent search committee meeting there was a long silence after which one of the members said, "Looks like we're going with the plate licker!"
7:00 PM Do you think in re the ethics job there might be a connection between "in our department women almost never get campus invites", the split faculty and the fact that the candidate did not wish to take the position? It seems rather likely to me.
Ditto 2:07.
January 29th: Are you kidding about the safeties? I couldn't tell.
Is it too much to expect that if people apply to a job, they will not disdain to take the job if offered and they do not find a job they want more?
Getting bad news at the end of a search is hard on candidates, but such calls also can be hard on the Search Chair. Once a candidate screamed into the phone, "Are you &*^@%#$ KIDDING me?!! YOU have RUINED my LIFE!!" When I tried to offer reassurances, more screaming ensued, with comments about how we would have been LUCKY to have him/her, how now this means the candidate will have to leave philosophy. It was unreal, and confirmed that we had dodged a bullet. This person is now a professor at a well known place, which I shall not name. Candidates should keep in mind that philosophy is a small world.
@anonymous 10:32PM
There are always two sides of the coin. Yes, Search Committees do ruin lives, and sometimes do so for all the wrong reasons. I am now several years beyond grad school, unable to find a t/t job, and searching for a new career. Yet, this happens not only because I did not publish or blew the few interviews I got (which I am sure I did in some cases), and the like. Once a SC member that I hardly knew wrote to me that I had lost the final vote because other faculty members were afraid I am “too established” and I would "overshadow" them. I could tell at least another couple of stories of the same nature, and several others of different or even opposite nature (so please don’t take my comment as a display of arrogance), but of equal degree of absurdity. There is no question there are lots and lots of job candidates with similar experiences out there.
The point is that it is not only academic merit and promise that play role in interviewing and hiring decisions – I dare to say that these are often minor factors. Nor is it about “dating students” or “licking plates,” as someone else mentioned above. This is just sidetracking the issue. There is also the candidate’s pedigree, departmental petty politics, committee member agendas, obligations to friends and other colleagues, psychological insecurities, and a whole range of other, hardly legitimate, I think, factors.
I was given an on-campus interview. At lunch, I joked that I had a macro set up on my computer that spat out "If I understand Davidson correctly here . . . ," so I didn't have to type it all the time.
The colleague (who hadn't read Davidson or any secondary lit on him, and thus didn't get the joke) went back and reported "this guy doesn't understand Davidson."
The job was offered as a one-year instead of the TT I was interviewing for. Took it, had to reapply the next year, now I'm tenured.
@3:10 am. That's terrible to hear, and all too common. I think that Weber's lecture on Science as a Vocation--if I remember correctly--has a large section devoted to enumerating the arbitrary and absurd elements that play a role in landing an academic position.
There is no justice here, in any case, which means that there is either no justice or that we'll have to wait to experience it. Best of luck on your career search.
@ anonymous 3:10am: you claim that search committees ruin lives.
Even on the assumption that you were always and in every way unfairly passed over for tenure-track jobs, can't a life of value be cultivated outside of a career in philosophy? Don't we teach our intro. to philosophy students that careful, critical reflection can help them in whatever career field they choose?
I suspect that if you look for ways to incorporate your philosophical training into whatever new career path you choose, you'll discover that meaningful philosophical work can be done even outside 'the guild'. To get a sense for the sort of thing I have in mind here, do an internet search for the Matthew Crawford article, "Shop Class as Soulcraft" in The Atlantic, or Dov Seidman's article, "Philosophy is Back in Business" in BusinessWeek.
Good luck!
Surely the famous 6:06 was merely being welcoming as a Cynic. He probably probably went on to manstrupate in the marketplace afterwards.
@11:59
Ha! That takes Philosophy as a Way of Life to a whole new level!
OK. I'll play. I was interviewing at a very good liberal arts university on the West coast. I was pumped because I learned on arrival that one of the finalists took another position, and it was down to me and the other candidate. About 20 minutes before my teaching demonstration, I walked into the administrative office looking for the dept. chair. As I walked in, I hear an adjunct (yes, an adjunct, who I assume was repeating what he had heard from someone in the department) telling the administrative assistant: "...the candidate that's here is OK [stressing 'OK' so as to suggest 'underwhelming'], but the other candidate is *great*." At that moment both stopped and looked at me with a mixture of horror and embarrassment. I pretended I had not heard anything. Needless to say, I was demoralized and shaken for the rest of the interview. I deliberated about whether to tell the chair what I had overheard, but I figured it would only compound my own discomfort. I did not get the job, and the person who did is, indeed, terrific.
I am now a full professor at a Big 12 school. But in the 1990s I interviewed for several TT positions, mostly at state colleges in the north east. At one interview, I went out to dinner with the entire phil. dept. faculty. There were five of them. Each was politically different from the other, from Left to Right and everything in between. (They told me so, and here's why). in the middle of dinner they began asking me about my views on affirmative action and racial preferences. I said that I thought they were wrong. The chair said, "Good, neither do we. I'm liberal, these two are more conservative, and that one is a Marxist. But we all hate affirmative action, and would never hire anyone who thinks it's just. And if you tell the dean that we said this to you, we would deny it."
Now, it get stranger. The next day the chair is walking me to the dean's office for an interview, and right before he escorts me in, he says, "Are you Mexican?" I said, "Why?" "Well, you look it." (I'm not, by the way. My mother's a dark woman with Mediterranean roots, and I look like her). And then he says, "It's too bad you're not Mexican. The dean would hand you the job a second after you tell him."
I didn't get an offer.
Stories that include or involve any reference to masturbation are always funny. Always.
Yeah, can't compete with 6:06, but here's my vastly inferior tale:
When they first told me I had an on campus interview they asked me to prepare two teaching demonstrations, one on applied ethics, and one on Nietzsche. Two days before the visit they told me the applied ethics talk needed to be on torture (I had been preparing for the death penalty). So I scrambled to get my best material on torture together. The day I got there I gave the Nietzsche presentation, all went well, I was at the top of my game. Then they told me that the applied ethics talk actually had to be on animal ethics, and I had to lead a test review in logic. I stayed up late creating a lecture on animal ethics from memory (all my materials were at home) and trying to refresh myself on the logic. Next day, much to my surprise, I hit it out of the park on animals and made it through the logic without a single mistake. Socially I seemed to get along just fine everyone, and they seemed to like me. I told my then girlfriend as I left "If I don't get this job, I'm never getting any job."
I didn't get the job. I asked people who knew people if they could find out why. Word got back to me: because I didn't drink a beer with them after dinner. I wasn't rude about it or anything, I just don't care for beer. Apparently, they were more concerned with having a drinking buddy than a good (and I think I can say with all humility, quite versatile and adaptable) teacher.
Thankfully, I was wrong: two years later I landed my current TT job and am quite happy where I am.
A number of years ago, I interviewed with a department in the mid-Atlantic states. I was terribly underwhelmed and e-mailed them after arriving home that I wasn't interested. They called me almost immediately asking to reconsider, because they wanted to offer me the job. I stuck to my guns, as this really wasn't the place for me. About two weeks later, I received a form letter--complete with typos and grammatical errors--informing me that they were no longer considering my candidacy. I almost blew a gasket.
I wo uldn't say that my department actually leans towards cats, but many of us have close relations with them. When we interview someone, it may come out that they have a cat or two. This is the occasion for cute cat stories and, particularly recently, advice on transporting cats to our city.
Without exception, our young male faculty's cats and cat stories are interesting. Mine are not.
I take this as a test of social intelligence. If you haven't figured out that you should at least try to talkwith very senior women, do not expect them to support your candidacy.
"About two weeks later, I received a form letter--complete with typos and grammatical errors--informing me that they were no longer considering my candidacy. I almost blew a gasket."
Wow. What made you so angry? Was it that you rejected them, but the letter made it sound as if they rejected you? How dare they.
Of course, the letter was probably sent to a list of all applicants - a list compiled by an administrative assistant or a work-studies student. Still, they really should have written you a separate letter, making it clear that you rejected them, noting your general superiority, and expressing deep regret that they were unable to sufficiently impress you.
I recently had a phone interview and was asked (in these precisely words): "how do you see yourself in relation to the history of philosophy?"
I was momentarily disoriented by the question. What the hell could he mean by this? Then the answer occurred to me suddenly: ""Have You Ever Heard of Plato? Aristotle? Socrates? Morons!"*
HT: The Princess Bride
I interviewed for a TT job at a well respected SLAC. I arrived with my wife and our infant. I interviewed all day giving a teaching talk, research talk, full one hour interview with all the faculty, and various individual meetings with department members and the dean (the usual exhausting itinerary). Then we went out to dinner. After dinner, I was asked by one of the members (he wasn't a junior faculty member) to go out with him to meet with some students. Of course, I said yes in order to ensure that things went smoothly. Finally, after a wash of beer (not me, everyone else), loud music and endless pretence of conversation with him in his office afterward, I arrived back at my hotel room around 3:30am. My wife thought I was certainly dead and lying at the side of the road (I had no cellphone and no way of reaching her).
I didn't get the job, but am happily TTd now with a wonderful set of colleagues.
This is not an on campus story but a hotel interview story. It's from a senior prof who taught in my old grad program.
Story: It's the 1960's, this person is in the hotel suite with two interviewing faculty. Both interviewers are plowed. Plastered. During the discussion, one of the interviewers gets up, walks to the corner of the hotel room, and pisses in the corner.
Feb. 8 @11:55: Wow, that seems like a really good argument for affirmative action.
I certainly wouldn't hire anyone who didn't drink beer. I don't trust those people.
This thread died a while ago, but I'll go ahead and add my (new) nightmare story anyway.
Two weeks ago I had an on-campus interview for a TT position. I was told that there were two other people interviewing for the job (the typical situation by the time you get to the on-campus). All of my individual interviews with the faculty seemed to go well, and my talk went fine. I even exchanged pleasant emails with the department chair a couple days later.
Today I received a PFO form letter in the mail. It reads (and notice the salutation - this is seriously what it says):
"Dear Sir or Madam,
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to interview you for the position of Assistant Professor of Philosophy. Although your background and credentials are impressive, they do not meet the minimum requirements for the position."
The letter is signed (or rather, stamped) by the "Business Coordinator" of the school.
What I don't understand is: with all of the highly qualified individuals on the market right now, how is it possible that they whittled their candidate list down to three, at least 1/3 of which does not "meet the minimum requirements for the position"? And were their requirements higher than the requirements for the other jobs I applied for? Did I need to have an advanced degree in astrophysics or something?
After reading this letter this morning, I was pretty much livid. This despite having already accepted another offer anyway (I had been waiting for the official paperwork to be completed before notifying this department that I was no longer interested). I was livid not so much at the being dismissed, but the rather absurd idea that I "do not meet the minimum requirements" and the total disrespect of sending me this form letter addressed to "sir or madam". I mean - you had 3 candidates to your campus. You couldn't take the time to write a personally-addressed email to the two who weren't offered the job? The notification couldn't even come from the department itself, it had to come from the "business coordinator"? Wtf is a "business coordinator"?
WV: distr, as in "the philosophy job market is a complete distr."
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